Open OEM - Forums - Voting for Open OEM Constitution

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Author	Message
kevindalvi Administrators 84 posts Location: United States Occupation: Age: 27	#925 2007-04-12 07:36 GMT-5 hours
	Let's vote for the constitution. Click Here to accesss the latest version of the Constitution The voting will occur as follows: 1. Please vote on the main page. 1. Add a comment here ONLY if you disagree with a section or an article. 2. In your comments, please specify the Section Name and the Article Number that you disagree with. 3. Also, include a short reasoning for your decision. 4. If you like to see a change in this specific Section or an Article, please include that in the comments. Remember that all the changes will lead to further discussions and voting but NOT in this section. Here's an example: I disagree with the following: #1 Article 4.1. The name of the organization is OpenOEM Reasoning: OpenOEM is not correct. Proposed Change: Name should be Open OEM #2 Article 9.1. No person may be excluded from membership of the OpenOEM by reason of the sex of such person or religious creed or any other criteria. Reasoning: Sentence needs to be ammended Proposed Change: No person may be excluded from membership of the OpenOEM by reason of the sex of such person or religious creed or any other criteria, however a person may be blocked or banned due to his/her actions not acceptable by the Open OEM Members. Please do not discuss on comment on other votes here. This topic has been created JUST for Voting to see where all of us stand. If there's something we need to discuss, we can start another topic. This post was edited by kevindalvi (2007-04-12 07:49 GMT-5 hours, ago)

vrrivaro Members 199 posts Location: Paraguay Asuncion Occupation: Age: 37	#926 2007-04-12 09:50 GMT-5 hours
	#12 Article 12.4. (Not present) Reasoning: It is a well know fact that knowledge of how a vote is proceeding can affect the outcome of that vote. Proposed Change: The voting shall be carried out by secret ballot, and its outcome shall remain secret while voting is in proceding.
	Jesus bless you all, Victor Rafael Rivarola
vrrivaro Members 199 posts Location: Paraguay Asuncion Occupation: Age: 37	#927 2007-04-12 10:06 GMT-5 hours
	#12. Article 12.7.1 The President shall not be a member of the Executive. Article 12.7.2 If a member of the Executive be elected President, he/she shall be deemed to have vacated his/her seat in the Executive. Article 12.7.3 The President shall not hold any other office or position of emolument within the organization. Reasoning: Redundant. Proposed Change: Article 12.7.1 The President shall not hold any other office or position of emolument within the organization. Article 12.7.2 If a member with a position of emolument be elected President, he/she shall be deemed to have vacated his/her seat in the position of emolument.
	Jesus bless you all, Victor Rafael Rivarola
vrrivaro Members 199 posts Location: Paraguay Asuncion Occupation: Age: 37	#928 2007-04-12 10:25 GMT-5 hours
	#18. Article 18.1. Every proposal for an amendment of this Constitution which is submitted by Referendum to the decision of the OpenOEM Members shall, for the purpose of Article 17 of this Constitution, be held to have been approved by the Members, if, upon having been so submitted, a majority of the votes cast at such Referendum shall have been cast in favour of its approval. Reasoning: A simple majority vote is too simple for a Constitutional amendment. Proposed Change: Article 18.1. Every proposal for an amendment of this Constitution which is submitted by Referendum to the decision of the OpenOEM Members shall, for the purpose of Article 17 of this Constitution, be held to have been approved by the Members, if, upon having been so submitted, a two thirds plus one of the votes cast at such Referendum shall have been cast in favour of its approval. Article 18.2. In orther for the referendum to hold power over this Constitution, at least two thirds plus one of the OpenOEM members must cast their votes. (Article 18.2 is part of the proposed changes, and is not part of the current document).
	Jesus bless you all, Victor Rafael Rivarola
Akito Members 43 posts Location: United States Occupation: Age: 16	#929 2007-04-12 16:22 GMT-5 hours
	Typo: DIRECTIVE PRINCIPLES OF SOCIAL POLICY The principles of social policy set forth in this Article are intended for the general guidance of the Executive. The application of those principles in the running of the OpenOEM shall be the care of the Executive exclusively. 1. The OpenOEM shall strive to promote the ideal of free and open hardware inasmuch as it will enable people to use their computers as they see fit. ----------------------------------------------------- Some things I disagree with: Not in constitution Standards for members Reasoning:We need structure so that things do not become chaotic,and members need to be held to standards of conduct (in OpenOEM discussions,at least). Proposed Change:Add standards for members. Not in constitution Unrelated topics being "sneaked" into topics being voted. Reasoning:This happens in the U.S. congress all the time,a bill with a fairly agreeable main cause is put into voting,however,there are also unreasonable,unrealated topics included. If they vote yes,those get through,if they vote no,they get bad reputations for voting no on the topic. Proposed Change:Only one topic per bill.

vrrivaro Members 199 posts Location: Paraguay Asuncion Occupation: Age: 37	#933 2007-04-13 11:12 GMT-5 hours
	I'll like to add a few sections. LICENCING Article 19. 1. All software developed for the OpenOEM by OpenOEM members shall be licensed under the latest current version of the GPL or later. 2. All software developped for the OpenOEM by paid persons (either by the hour or by product) shall also be under the current version of the GPL or later. Article 20. Other licenses would be admitted only if they: 1. Fullfill the Free software definition as provided in http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html or the current location of that same document. 2. It is required by reasons of license compatibility. For example, if the latest GPL is vertion 2, and the latest Apache License is version 2, both licenses are imcompatible. If a linkage is required with an external Free software under Apache 2, the use of the Apache 2 license would be accepted. Reasoning We have made much discussion on the issue of licenses already. This belongs in the constitution. PATENTING Article 21. The OpenOEM recognizes the threat of patents to the level of science in general, specially is they are software related. However, we must defend ourselves against patents from others. We achieve a balance doing the following: 1. We choose to patent as many things as possible, it is however not an obligation of an OpenOEM member to obtain patents for his or her discoveries. 2. We issue a license stating that: 2.i) Everyone has free use of the patent on OpenOEM or otherwise Free hardware or software. 2.ii) The licensee agrees in exchange to have his or her license inmediatly terminated, without the need for any legal action on our part, the moment that they use any patent against the OpenOEM or any of its manufacturers or any of its members or otherwise involved in the design, manufacturing (or other such activities including but not limited to ownership of the companies that are) involved in the making of Free hardware. Reasoning I know that article 21 is controversial. However, it is my position and right now is the best time to resolve the issue. This vote is the right way to do it. (Editted to add article 19.2) This post was edited by vrrivaro (2007-04-13 16:37 GMT-5 hours, ago)
	Jesus bless you all, Victor Rafael Rivarola
vrrivaro Members 199 posts Location: Paraguay Asuncion Occupation: Age: 37	#934 2007-04-13 11:19 GMT-5 hours
	Also, how Dale proposed we resolve the Constitutional ammendment issue has not been updated: Article 4 4.7°.5°° The Office of the President shall hold special responsibility with regards to deciding points of contention in the Constitution. The President at his/her discretion may deem it necessary, upon proper assessment of the facts, refer the point to the members of the OpenOEM for proper debate and referendum in a general poll as referenced in Article 17 of this Constitution. Then, if the referendum so indicates, he/she shall declare the Amendment to the constitution approved and the new point shall take its place.
	Jesus bless you all, Victor Rafael Rivarola
Akito Members 43 posts Location: United States Occupation: Age: 16	#936 2007-04-13 18:07 GMT-5 hours
	Quote vrrivaro : I'll like to add a few sections. Quote vrrivaro : LICENCING Article 19. 1. All software developed for the OpenOEM by OpenOEM members shall be licensed under the latest current version of the GPL or later. 2. All software developped for the OpenOEM by paid persons (either by the hour or by product) shall also be under the current version of the GPL or later. This should be changed to GPL version 2 or later. Quote vrrivaro : PATENTING Article 21. The OpenOEM recognizes the threat of patents to the level of science in general, specially is they are software related. However, we must defend ourselves against patents from others. We achieve a balance doing the following: 1. We choose to patent as many things as possible, it is however not an obligation of an OpenOEM member to obtain patents for his or her discoveries. 2. We issue a license stating that: 2.i) Everyone has free use of the patent on OpenOEM or otherwise Free hardware or software. 2.ii) The licensee agrees in exchange to have his or her license inmediatly terminated, without the need for any legal action on our part, the moment that they use any patent against the OpenOEM or any of its manufacturers or any of its members or otherwise involved in the design, manufacturing (or other such activities including but not limited to ownership of the companies that are) involved in the making of Free hardware. I like the idea of "copylefted" patents better.

vrrivaro Members 199 posts Location: Paraguay Asuncion Occupation: Age: 37	#943 2007-04-14 16:39 GMT-5 hours
	I will also propose the following addition: Article 19 3. As an special exception, a binary signature for the purpose of identifying a device or computer a being OpenOEM solely can be distributed on a different license. This license would allow anyone to use the signature for the purposes of making an OpenOEM device or computer only. Reasoning Akito pointed me out that my terms would invalidate the actions needed for the identification protocol I envision of the OpenOEM.
	Jesus bless you all, Victor Rafael Rivarola
vrrivaro Members 199 posts Location: Paraguay Asuncion Occupation: Age: 37	#945 2007-04-14 16:52 GMT-5 hours
	Article 19 4. The OpenOEM has the power and ability to accept software written by other people for other purposes if it fullfils the Free Software Definition as specified in http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html. Reasoning We should accept other free software licences software we use if that software was written by a different person. If we don't do this, we would be locking ourselves out of using software written under different licenses, such as Firefox, XOrg, PHP, Perl, Python, etc.
	Jesus bless you all, Victor Rafael Rivarola
Akito Members 43 posts Location: United States Occupation: Age: 16	#948 2007-04-14 17:36 GMT-5 hours
	Are we going to be charging for membership? If so,we should include this,or if not,we should place a clause against it. Article 12 2.4 No voting member shall attempt to attack the integrity of the election,under penalty of immediate loss of membership,legal action may apply. Reason:To preserve the integrity of elections. This post was edited by Akito (2007-04-14 18:15 GMT-5 hours, ago)

vrrivaro Members 199 posts Location: Paraguay Asuncion Occupation: Age: 37	#951 2007-04-14 23:31 GMT-5 hours
	How about? Article 12 2.4 No voting member should ever attempt to affect the results of an election in manners other than casting a single vote. Things forbiden by this article are: 2.4.1 Voting more than once. 2.4.2 Impersonating another user and therefore taking over his or her vote. 2.4.3 Making the current results of the election public before the election is over. This action would invalidate the entire election. 2.4.4 Buying somebody else's vote or selling his or her vote.
	Jesus bless you all, Victor Rafael Rivarola
Akito Members 43 posts Location: United States Occupation: Age: 16	#961 2007-04-16 17:41 GMT-5 hours
	Quote vrrivaro : How about? Article 12 2.4 No voting member should ever attempt to affect the results of an election in manners other than casting a single vote. Things forbiden by this article are: 2.4.1 Voting more than once. 2.4.2 Impersonating another user and therefore taking over his or her vote. 2.4.3 Making the current results of the election public before the election is over. This action would invalidate the entire election. 2.4.4 Buying somebody else's vote or selling his or her vote. That sounds great,but I think we need to list the punishments for these actions,would a ban be sufficent? And what would that "ban" prevent them from doing.

vrrivaro Members 199 posts Location: Paraguay Asuncion Occupation: Age: 37	#975 2007-04-16 21:51 GMT-5 hours
	Article 12 2.4 No voting member should ever attempt to affect the results of an election in manners other than casting a single vote. Punishment should be decided by the Executive upon assesment of the severity of the offense. Things forbiden by this article are: 2.4.1 Voting more than once. 2.4.2 Impersonating another user and therefore taking over his or her vote. 2.4.3 Making the current results of the election public before the election is over. This action would invalidate the entire election. 2.4.4 Buying somebody else's vote or selling his or her vote.
	Jesus bless you all, Victor Rafael Rivarola
dale Members 156 posts Location: Ireland Occupation: Engineer Age: 37	#982 2007-04-17 04:19 GMT-5 hours
	Should we look at enlisting the help of an outside agency to manage the voting? I'm not sure we have the expertise in house to do this?

kevindalvi Administrators 84 posts Location: United States Occupation: Age: 27	#985 2007-04-17 07:37 GMT-5 hours
	Are there any open source solutions for voting? Also, it seems that everyone is done commenting on the constitution. Now we have to make sure everyone agrees with the proposed changes. How can we do this? Start another topic with all the changes or start new individual topics? After we are done with this, we will move on to a final CPU / OS Voting and get this project started.

vrrivaro Members 199 posts Location: Paraguay Asuncion Occupation: Age: 37	#987 2007-04-17 08:22 GMT-5 hours
	The current poll mechanism would work if it is posible to: 1. Make sure people cannot see the results of a vote while in progress. 2. Hold multiple votes on a issue. The constituion for example would require a long document printed with many votes interwinded. 3. Declare the voting period closed. Is all this supported? If so, we already have evrything needed. If not, it should be easy to implement provided you have the PHP source. Yes, I'll do the required modifications.
	Jesus bless you all, Victor Rafael Rivarola
vrrivaro Members 199 posts Location: Paraguay Asuncion Occupation: Age: 37	#989 2007-04-17 09:09 GMT-5 hours
	Meanwhile, there are quite a few free voting software. For example: https://demexp.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=en:start http://everythinglinux.org/ivote/index.html http://www.tedsowinski.com/ I have looked at the plugins page for our CMS. It doesń't looks like requirement number 2 is met by the only voting plugin supported.
	Jesus bless you all, Victor Rafael Rivarola
Akito Members 43 posts Location: United States Occupation: Age: 16	#994 2007-04-17 19:09 GMT-5 hours
	if we have not already,it would seem beneficial for this to be checked over by a law professional after the vote before we move on to other matters.

John R. Sowden Members 1 posts Location: United States Occupation: Security Company Owner Age: 62	#1092 2008-01-21 16:04 GMT-5 hours
	Constitution Concerns (through Article 13): Article 11 A reference is made to 'one fund'. Hard coding this into a document that might outlive all of us is too restrictive, in my opinion. An example of other funds might be: for a specific purpose, to accept defined donations, etc. Article 12 Section 2.2: A reference was made regarding those members that have the right to vote. Which members do not have the right to vote? A reference was made in Section 4.1 regarding voting for President. Is the right to vote selective for different elections? A "democracy" does not allow for 'selective voting, nor does it allow for a 'non-voting member', unless, of course, the member is a felon, which, in this case might be a badge of honor. Article 12 Section 4.5: This has the potential to create a 'good ole boys club'. If this situation presents itself, a notice should be sent to all members warning of the circumstance, and allowing for a second candidate with x days (maybe 10?). Article 12 Section 4.7.5: This is giving too much power to the President. Changes to the Constitution should be debated and voted on by the members, with a quorum required. Sorry, I had to stop at Article 13. Note: A link should be placed in the voting box on the Home Page to the Constitution, so members could see what they are voting on without having to search the forums.

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